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Sonatas for Viola da Gamba & Harpsichord BWV 1027-1029
General Discussions - Part 2 |
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Continue from Part 1 |
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Monthly Discussion May 2009: Sonatas for Viola da Gamba & Harpsichord BWV 1027-1029 |
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Francis Browne wrote (May 1, 2009):
Gamba Sonatas BWV 1027-9 : Not an introduction
Despite John's splendid example in leading the discussion on the works for solo violin,nobody -alas! -seems to have come forward to introduce the non-vocal works to be discussed during this coming month . This makes me wonder how many of the 800 people who receive these mailings know these works for viola da gamba and harpsichord. In such a large number there are bound to be some who know these works intimately, have performed or studied them and many, many who have a far greater knowledge and understanding of the music than I have. But I suspect that there is also a fair number who may know the more celebrated works of Bach - the Brandenburg concertos, St Matthew Passion, Mass in B Minor , most frequently performed cantatas , the double violin concerto etc -but have never explored or heard in performance such works as these.
I strongly urge all those who haven't heard these works to give themselves the serious delight of getting to know this marvellous music in the course of this month.I am certain you will find that it will be time amply rewarded. Bach seems incapable of writing music whose interest can be exhausted. These sonatas for viola da gamba and harpsichord may not be as well known as some other works of Bach,but they are in no way inferior or second rate.No matter how much I listen to these works I never cease to find fresh and increasing interest and delight. There are many recordings available- I found a dozen or more on Naxos Music Library and a wide range on emusic. I would recommend particularly Jordi Savall /Ton Koopman and Paolo Pandolfo/Rinaldo Alessandrini as outstanding recordings where the evident rapport between the musicians leads to memorable music making , but to judge from what I have sampled on Naxos the music can succeed with a wide variety of approaches.
Some people may find they already know the adagio from BWV 1029 : it was used in the film Truly, madly, deeply where it is the melancholy theme played on the cello by Juliet Stephenson's dead lover. When people at the time the film came out asked me what the music was, I remember thinking that this was music that only had to be heard to make an impact.If the discussion on this list leads some people to get to know this music, something worthwhile will be achieved.
There is plenty to discuss since there is much speculation and little certainty about these works. They seem to have been recast in Leipzig from earlier works composed for other instruments.BWV 1027 is a revision of BWV 1039 for two flutes and continuo. This in turn may be based on earlier work for two violins. BWV 1028 may be a reworking of an earlier trio sonata for flute and violin -or else an original work for bass viol -or perhaps the third movement had vocal origins. BWV 1029 may come from an earlier Trio Sonata or some have suggested a double violin concerto now lost.
According to the Oxford Composer Companion ' the individual movements display remarkable diversity of structure and character'. In many ways they resemble trio sonatas which were the subject of discussion a few months ago, and they would certainly repay close study and discussion.
I have no special knowledge or expertise to offer and this note makes no claim to be an introduction but I would be very interested to learn more about the origins of these works and their present form. I am curious also about some of the recordings -Martha Argerich and Mischa Maisky have recorded them (on piano and cello) -gifted musicians but not the first names you would associate with Bach -Glenn Gould also - and some of the arrangements for other instruments -oboe, guitar, cello, trumpet etc.There seems a wealth of possible topics for discussion.
To quote John Dryden :"But enough of this : there is such a variety of game springing up before me that I am distracted in my choice and know not which to follow.'Tis sufficient to say according to the proverb, that here is God's plenty." |
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John Pike wrote (May 1, 2009):
[To Francis Browne] I don't know; seems an admirable introduction to me. Get discussing! |
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Anne (Nessie Russell) wrote (May 1, 2009):
[To John Pike] Agreed. I am one of the several hundred people on this list who do not know these sonatas. I think I have one recording. I am going to look for it and then check out E Music.
The monthly discussion is a great excuse to listen to music you don't have.
For those who do know these sonatas it would be helpful if you recommended some recordings. |
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Francis Browne wrote (May 2, 2009):
Gamba Sonatas BWV 1027-9
Anne (Nessie) Russell wrote :
"For those who do know these sonatas it would be helpful if you recommended some recordings."
I did mention two but only the Jordi Savall / Ton Koopman seems to be easily available . The one I would recommend is their second recording on Alia Vox -available from eMusic. The Penguin Guide says :" there is a depth of express the feeling here combined with an intimate rapport between the two players that gives an effect of eavesdropping on live musicmaking of the highest calibre. The recording is resonant but full, firm and clearly focused. A clear first choice ."
Lindsay Kemp in Gramophone is more detailed :
"Like Bach's violin sonatas, these are effectively trio sonatas in which the right hand of the harpsichord has a melodic role on an equal footing with the gamba, and it is in this respect that the rapport between these players is best shown. One of the delights of this disc, indeed, is the way each plays the same melodic material slightly differently according to the nature of his instrument. Savall's long notes are drawn out with impeccable crescendos, while Koopman, unable to do the same on the harpsichord, adorns his with lovingly shaped trills and arabesques. Similarly, Koopman's idiosyncratic habit of beginning a long and potentially mechanical-sounding trill at startlingly slow speed and then accelerating with an impressive iron control, is not needed by Savall. Together, however, they conjure performances whose sheer rightness and creative warmth - from the concentrated emotion of the slower movements to the busy dialogues of the faster ones - make the music sound invigoratingly fresh. And as so often with older and wiser second recordings, there is a relaxed freedom here, compared to which the earlier version, fine though it is, sounds crucially stilted."
I hope to listen to more recordings on Naxos Music Library and comment later this month. |
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Julian Mincham wrote (May 2, 2009):
Gamba Sonatas BWV 1027-9 : Still Not an introduction
[To Francis Browne] My eye caught this topic particularly because I have been learning these works (the keyboard parts that is) over the last couple of weeks. They are spendidly inventive works, quite demanding technically and musically but very rewarding to study. Bach seems to have followed the same pattern as elsewhere by creating a mixture of 'modern' three movement sonata forms (e.g. that in G minor) and the four movement--slow, fast, slow fast pattern of the trio sonata. This similarity to other chamber music sets of six would, perhaps indicate that there were originally six of these sonatas as well, possibly split up and three of them lost when JSB died. (I haven't got around to looking up any references to this matter--others may well find them and post) ?As to recordings that in the Bach Classic set (Proud and Dornenburg) is to my mind very (that CD also contains a performance of the original prelude and fugue in Am from which the massive outer movements of the triple concerto for flute, violin and harpsichord were later developed).
As with a number of the flute and violin sonats with keyboard, Bach generally creates three lines of equal importance, one for each hand of the keyboard player and one for the gamba. However he also makes use of some double stopping (last movement of the D major) and some very idiomatic and imaginative keyboard writing in the middle section of the same movement. The slow third movement of that sonata, in B minor, is, to my mind the most stunningly beautiful of the 5 slow movements in the set.
The Gm is the largest and most impressive of the three despite being one movement less. The opening is highly reminisient of the first movement of Brandenburg three--thought there the key was ?in G major not minor. Not only that but in the third movement Bach employs a harmonic progression from just after the?double barline of the?second? movement of the Brandenburg, a possible pointer to the fact that he looked back over the concerto scores when composing these three fine chamber works --from 22 bars before the end for those with scores.?
Don't ignore the left hand keyboard lines when listening to these works (a little subdued in the Bach Classics CD) because?they are?full of interest and invention, nowhere more apparent than in the last movements of each sonata.?
I'd be interested in comments from cellists who play these works on the modern instruments and how they?lie under the fingers. |
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Anne (Nessie Russell) wrote (May 2, 2009):
Francis Browne wrote:
< I did mention two but only the Jordi Savall / Ton Koopman seems to be easily available . The one I would recommend is their second recording on Alia Vox -available from eMusic. >
Yes, thank you. I have found it and saved it. I will download it when I get in later today.
Also on E Music is BWV 1027 on oboe and harpsichord played by Robin Canter and Paul Nicholson. I have this saved as well. |
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Harry W. Crosby wrote (May 2, 2009):
To Anne and all, I will not be the slightest bit bashful in recommending the Jonathan Manson/Trevor Pinnock performances on the Avie label.
I have owned and enjoyed Boothby/Ad-El, and particularly Quintana/Frisch, and listened to Savall/Koopman and Ghielmi/?, but certainly can say that at this point in time, my favorite is that of the afore-mentioned Jonathan Manson and Trevor Pinnock. Theirs, to my ear, is strong, satisfying, and unmannered. I hope many of you will at least have a chance to hear this and express opinions! |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (May 2, 2009):
< For those who do know these sonatas it would be helpful if you recommended some recordings. >
I'll mention some others later, but for me the one on Naxos works very well. Aapo Häkkinen and Mikko Perkola. |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (May 3, 2009):
Harry W. Crosby wrote:
>I will not be the slightest bit bashful in recommending the Jonathan Manson/Trevor Pinnock performances on the Avie label. <
EM replies:
Harry, bashful? He has been known to make even me blush, if that counts for anything. Brad and Julian also recommended recordings, which I have or intend to pursue.
I add for additional consideration the performance by Boston Museum Trio (local folks, and friends) from 1994, on Centaur (not listed on BCW?). From the booklet notes:
<The G major Sonata, BWV 1027, is itself a transcription for viola da gamba and harpsichord of the Sonata for Two Flutes and Basso Continuo, BWV 1039. Bach had only to assign the basso continuo part to the right hand, and to transpose the lower flute part down an octave for the viola da gamba. As a riposte to Bachs procedure, The Boston Muaeum Trio have made retro-transcriptions of these three gamba sonatas by assigning the right hand of the harpsichord part to the violin, and relegating the keyboard to its traditional basso continuo function.> (notes signed by Paul Guglietti, not a member of the trio)
I found that statement rather dense on first reading, but quite helpful with a bit of thought. I hope you all agree.
Despite its age, this CD is a recent acquisition for me, and I have not yet listened to it. I plan to provide some comments, clearly not objective. I am interested in thoughts on the validity of the retro-transcriptions in presenting the music. It strikes me as an interesting way to elaborate on Bachs methods in making use of the available troops, if not necessarily his advancement of keyboard complexity. |
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Johan Kakkens wrote (May 5, 2009):
[To Ed Myskowski] An album that I can strongly recommend is the one recorded by Guido Balestracci and Blandine Rannou. The cd cover alone is worth the price but playing, sound and interpretation are all cristal clear! http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Rannou.htm#H2
Last year I had the opportunity to see a couple of the gamba sonatas played by Wieland Kuijken and Gustav Leonhardt in Belgium, a real pleasure to listen to but of course the concert has not been recorded. |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (May 5, 2009):
Gamba sonatas, BWV 1027-9 (correction)
The correct description of Bachs transcription, from the booklet notes to the Bostom Museum Trio recording on Centaur is:
<Bach had only to assign the basso continuo part to the left hand of the harpsichordist, and the upper flute part to the right hand, and to transpose the lower flute part down an octave for the viola da gamba.>
A key section (indicated by asterisks) was omitted in my previous post, repeated here, with the intent of clarity. I submit this correction primarily for accuracy in the archives, but I also apologize for any confusion to current readers.
<The G major Sonata, BWV 1027, is itself a transcription for viola da gamba and harpsichord of the Sonata for Two Flutes and Basso Continuo, BWV 1039. Bach had only to assign the basso continuo part to the right hand, and to transpose the lower flute part down an octave for the viola da gamba.> |
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David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote (May 5, 2009):
[To Ed Myskowski] Actually, Ed, you have it backwards. The Gamba sonata was the original and the Trio sonata was the transcription (a transcription nowadays in serious doubt as to being by Bach, current thinking is that it was by his second-eldest son Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach). This is not the case (doubtful authenticity, that is) for the one genuine transcription by Bach of this work (namely the Organ Trio BWV 1027a). |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (May 5, 2009):
David Glenn Lebut Jr. wrote:
>Actually, Ed, you have it backwards. The Gamba sonata was the original and the Trio sonata was >the transcription (a transcription nowadays in serious doubt as to being by Bach, current thinking is that it was by his second-eldest son Carl Philipp Emanuel Bach). <
Could you cite some sources? In my original post, I noted that I was citing booklet notes by Paul Guglietti accompanying the 1994 Centaur recording by the Boston Museum Trio. Francis Browne, in his (Not an) Introduction, also suggested the same relation, that BWV 1027 is a transcription for gamba and harpsichord of BWV 1039. This is consistent with the BWV of 1998, at least as I read it (quickly, and without German ability - correction invited). Finally, in the program notes (published on-line) to a 2008 concert performance at UC Davis:
<J.S. Bach scholars have wondered for many years about the origins of his three sonatas for viola da gamba and obligato harpsichord. It has been thought that they were composed while he was employed at the court of Cöthen between 1717 and 1723. Durthe six years he spent at this music-loving court Bach composed much of his instrumental chamber music. Current thinking now has placed these sonatas in the next decade, circa 1736, at a time when he may have been surrounded by some remarkable and virtuosic players of this instrument. Carl Friedrich Abel and Ludwig Christian Hesse were among them, both admired for their refinement, proficiency, and taste.
Bach’s viola da gamba Sonata in G Major (BWV 1027) is almost certainly a transcription of a trio sonata for two flutes and basso continuo (BWV 1039). For this evening’s concert, we have continued in the great tradition of transcription, presenting it as a trio sonata for viola da gamba, violin, and basso continuo.>
Note that I have no personal expertise or opinion on the transcription (or not) of BWV 1027, I am merely citing the informal (except for BWV) reports of others. I also point out that the trio performance at UC Davis is consistent with the Boston Museum Trio recording from fourteen years earlier, which began this discussion detail.
Coincidentally, that recording also includes the violin sonata BWV 1021, which according to Guglietti in the booklet notes, provided the basso line for the Trio Sonata, BWV 1038: <[it is] likely that the young Carl Philipp Emanuel made the trio version as an exercise for his father>. |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (May 6, 2009):
At this point, I wish I had never gone down this path. It was my error to post my correction to a BRML post on BCML. David Glenn LeBut Jr. responded on BCML, but now I am uncertain if he saw the original post. His response contradicted my understanding of the relations among various versions of the same music, to which I responded, still on BCML.
Now back on track (BRML), thanks to the moderator, my understanding follows, significantly different from Davids. I emphasize, I invite correction, I have no personal investment or expertise on this matter, and I have consulted only secondary sources (other than BWV, 1998). My original motivation was to reply to Francis Brownes kind Non Introduction, while giving a mention to a recording which includes a couple friends, as well as some provocative ideas.
(1) The first compostition was BWV 1039, trio sonata for two flutes (trv) and harpsichord, probably before 1720.
(2) JSB subsequently transcribed this for gamba and hps., designated BWV 1027, probably after 1730.
(3) Someone outside the family (Korner, I believe) transcribed movements 1, 2, and 4 to create a trio sonata for organ, sometimes (but not in BWV?) designated BWV 1027a in the literature. |
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Francis Browne wrote (May 6, 2009):
I have listened to some more recordings of the Gamba sonatas. As Julian pointed out, John Dornenburg and Malcolm Proud give excellent performances on Brilliant Classics - generally slower in tempi than Savall/Koopman but very enjoyable.
The Boston Museum Trio, which Ed has mentioned,are available on Naxos Musical Library. They play the works as trio sonatas and this works very well. This is also enjoyable music making.
If anyone is allergic to harpsichords and period instruments, they might be interested in the viola/piano version by Yuko Inoue and Kathron Sturrock.It is easy to transpose these sonatas for viola and Inoue is a very accomplished player who is excellently accompanied on piano by Sturrock. Together they produce a beautiful sound which seems smoother , less angular than most versions. Just occasionally they seem to miss some of the energy and verve in the music but most people will listen with pleasure to these performances. The CD also includes a fine performance (on viola) of the chaconne from BWV 1004. |
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Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (May 8, 2009):
Although there is a plethora of recordings of much Bach "stuff" these days, many items will, it seems, never be officially transfered to CD (CDs are probably a matter of the last generation anyway).
Recently via the upload I was able to enjoy this ancient artifact:
Here's a rare opportunity to sample John Barbirolli's work as a cellist. Here he plays Bach's sonata in G, BWV 1027 (first of the three originally for viola da gamba), accompanied at the piano by Ethel Bartlett, recorded July 1, 1929 by Columbia for the National Gramophonic Society and released on NGS 133 and 134.
Anyway usable for any eventual discography and rather amazing that this man was making still famed Mahler recordings in the mid-latish 1960s. |
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Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (May 12, 2009):
Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote:
< Recently via the upload I was able to enjoy this ancient artifact:
Here's a rare opportunity to sample John Barbirolli's work as a cellist. Here he plays Bach's sonata in G, BWV 1027 (first of the three originally for viola da gamba), accompanied at the piano by Ethel Bartlett, recorded July 1, 1929 by Columbia for the National Gramophonic Society and released on NGS 133 and 134. >
In addition to this download which I can enjoy and the couple of CDs I have on either Viola da Gamba or piccolo cello, I notice that I have four LPs of these works which I cannot enjoy. I keep them as Petrarch (wasn't it?) kept his Greek Homer in the hope of absorption by some means.
They are:
Viola/harpsichord: Paul Doktor/ Fernando Valenti
Westminster (mid 1950s, I take it);
Cello/harpsichord: Antonia Janigro/Robert Vernon-Lacroix
Westminster (date?);
Gamba/harpsichord: August Wenzinger/Fritz Neumeyer
Archive (4.20.1951--- 1/13/1950--10/28/1952 resp.);
Gamba/harpsichord: Nikolaus Harnoncourt/Herbert Tachezi Telefunken (March/April, 1968). This LP includes additionally Trio Sonata in G major for 2 flutes and continuo; BWV 1039, the original format of the first Gamba sonata. The flutists are Franz Brüggen and Leopold Stastny. Anyway I thought I would share that although I have NO current opinions on these recordings which at one time brought me much pleasure. |
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Anne (Nessie Russell) wrote (May 28, 2009):
We are almost at the end of May. There has not been much discussion about these sonatas.
I took suggestions people made earlier this month and found many on EMusic and downloaded samples. I already had a recording by Jordi Savall and Ton Koopman. I like this one the best of all the regular recordings.
The disc I enjoyed the most was by Robin Canter on oboe and Paul Nicholson on harpsichord.
Even though we do not have a lot of discussion on this list I find the monthly topic a good excuse to look up music I rarely or never listen to. |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (May 28, 2009):
On the sonatas for viola da gamba and harpsichord, at the top of my stack right now I have Perkola/Hakkinen (already mentioned a few weeks ago) and Pandolfo/Alessandrini.
But, some other favorites, mostly older: Dreyfus/Haugsand, Weber/Hill (with a Lautenwerk), ter Linden/Egarr, Kuijken/Leonhardt, ter Linden/Bouman (in the MAK boxed set), Bylsma/van Asperen (on violoncello piccolo and organ), and two different ones by Savall/Koopman (1978 and 2000).
I listened to the one in the Brilliant Classics box, but didn't find much special to remark about in it.
And I went through several Casals performances again, without much enjoyment; I usually like him, but his pianists didn't contribute the 2/3 of the presence that is their job in playing two melodic lines. They were too much in the background, both with interpretation and miking, as if they were merely accompanying a solo.
Rose/Gould give a weird trip, as usual. It's engaging and mostly lively. Some of the obvious splices bother me.
One thing I especially like about Alessandrini's perforis that he's content to play the long notes simply, instead of filling them up with trills to keep them sounding.
I hear these sonatas as harpsichord music that happens to have a third melodic line added to them. |
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Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (May 28, 2009):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
(after listing a bunch of recordings)
< I hear these sonatas as harpsichord music that happens to have a third melodic line added to them. >
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Anne and Brad just gave two reasons why lists (outside of ones where there is a non-musical or extra-musical interest)get very few participants.
(1) To say much of anything one needs a large collection of recordings of the given work and the developed sensitivity to hear or feel differences. I imagine that very few members have a large collection of most works. Or to say anything meaningful one needs to be a highly informed specialist. Again excludes most music-lovers.
In the end Brad hears two lines of harpsichord with some gamba melodic line for good measure. This interesting way of hearing brings to mind that, when I listened to the 5th VIOLIN and Keyboard sonata as played by Dubois and Maas some 15 days after my initial reaction to the 4th sonata, I heard gorgeous violin playing but barely any representation of the keyboard. |
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Bradley Lehman wrote (May 28, 2009):
I wrote:
< I hear these sonatas as harpsichord music that happens to have a third melodic line added to them. >
...which comes not so much from listening to recordings, as from playing them from full score at the harpsichord. The harpsichordist's two hands each have 1/3 of the music to take care of.
Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote:
< This interesting way of hearing brings to mind that, when I listened to the 5th VIOLIN and Keyboard sonata as played by Dubois and Maas some 15 days after my initial reaction to the 4th sonata, I heard gorgeous violin playing but barely any representation of the keyboard. >
That's a recording from 1933, right? From the web samples I've heard, I was surprised that the piano has as much presence as it does, given the recording vintage...while the music could still stand to have more. And violin and piano certainly don't blend in the same way that a good harpsichord and a gut-strung Baroque violin (played with a light bow) do. Violin and piano tend to compete with one another....
I like the samples. Did Dubois/Maas record all six of those sonatas, or only the last three? |
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Anne (Nessie Russell) wrote (May 28, 2009):
Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote:
< Anne and Brad just gave two reasons why lists (outside of ones where there is a non-musical or extra-musical interest) get very few participants.
(1) To say much of anything one needs a large collection of recordings of the given work and the developed sensitivity to hear or feel differences. >
If you had read my post carefully you would have found that I had one (1) recording of these sonatas before this discussion began. I mentioned that I downloaded some tracks from EMusic this month. This is a large collection of recordings? |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (May 29, 2009):
Anne (Nessie) Russell wrote:
>Even though we do not have a lot of discussion on this list I find the monthly topic a good excuse to look up music I rarely or never listen to.<
I agree. An important point, and perhaps a bit of encouragement for the folks who kindly take the trouble to post the introductions. Aryeh in the past has encouraged people to write, even if only to say I listened to such and such and enjoyed it (or not). Francis has pointed out Apuleius, commenting on the ultimate beneficiary of a thoughtful (or even not so) post. Not to blunt that point by smacking it too often. |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (May 29, 2009):
Anne (Nessie) Russell wrote (continuing the thread she began)
>If you had read my post carefully you would have found that I had one (1) recording of these sonatas before this discussion began. I mentioned that I downloaded some tracks from EMusic this month. This is a large collection of recordings? <
Not to overlook one of the original thoughts, which was that the monthly discusssion was the incentive to:
(1) Listen to your (1) recording.
(2) Access some additional ones.
(3) Post your reactions to the listening experience, to share with the rest of us.
I thank you for all of that. It adds to my enjoymjent of the music. |
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Ed Myskowski wrote (May 29, 2009):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
>(after listing a bunch of recordings) >
EM:
I thought Brads comments to be concise, but better than a list. Details on request, to Brad? Give it a try.
I find any (!) comments on BCW, re recordings, helpful in making purchasing decisions. That is what got me here in the first place. I wish we had more of both comments and recordings. My advice: If you get Kuijken and Herreweghe to supplement your complete Brilliant Classics Bach Edition (mostly Leusink), you will have a nice sample of the listening spectrum. Gardiner next. Others (Rilling, Richter, H&L, etc.) for historic and/or specific performer interest are not likely to disappoint. Unless it is your nature to be disappointed.
BL:
>I hear these sonatas as harpsichord music that happens to have a third melodic line added to them. <
EM:
The cellists are attacking, bows (and arrows?) in hand! The violinists (Dan Stepner) are retro-transcribing the trio sonata for a trio. The keyboard guys are trying to figure out if it is a percussion or melody instrument they are playing. Could it be both?
Zounds that way to me, ca. ECE09. Bach to the organ? Hammond B3 alive and playing on my block. |
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Santu de Silva wrote (May 29, 2009):
[To Bradley Lehman] I've been re-listening to some of these recently, (also oboe and harpsichord sonatas), and I think part of the trouble is the recordings, which have a very distant balance on the harpsichord. Unfortunately, what I did was put a whole bunch of these on an mp3 player, and it's a little too much trouble to find out which recordings they are. Back in the seventies, they couldn't quite figure how to balance the harpsichord against the other instrument, I'm guessing, because they must have used huge harpsichords which were chosen to balance the chamber orchestra sound.
More recent recordings seem to have more reasonable balance choices, e.g. Podger/Pinnock, Moroney/somebody, etc, simply because they've got a wider variety of harpsichords to choose from. |
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Harry W. Crosby wrote (May 30, 2009):
Well, all, if we are really invited to share our opinions of recordings and performances, I shall not be shy.
I have, or have had, a total of at least six recorded performances of the gamba sonatas; from the past, those by Mischa Maisky and Martha Argerich, Wieland Kuijken and Gustav Leonhardt, and Guido Balestracci and Blandine Rannou.
In my collection now, and in the order of my preference,
1. Jonathan Manson and Trevor Pinnock (by a clear margin)
2. Juan Manuel Quintano and Céline Frisch
3. Paolo Pandolfo and Rinaldo Alessandrini
Since I am not a musician, I cannot make technical arguments for my choices in any comparison, but I can claim to have a personal vision of Bach's musical speech and of those who read it off the page with the inflections and expressiveness that best reflect my vision.
All I can ask anyone who might be interested is that they manage somehow to hear the performances that I love. At best, they may find something to admire; at worst, they will know better where to pigeon-hole me! |
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Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (May 31, 2009):
Bradley Lehman wrote:
< I wrote:
<< I hear these sonatas as harpsichord music that happens to have a third melodic line added to them. >>
<...which comes not so much from listening to recordings, as from playing them from full score at thharpsichord. The harpsichordist's two hands each have 1/3 of the music to take care of. >
Sorry for my delayed response. Such are my internet list habits these days (nothing personal to list or person posting). Indeed I believe I indicated that one of the desiderata for making a meaningful contribution is being a specialist or having specialist knowledge. There is a small world out there of persons who appreciate this (or most genres of) "Classical Music" and of this small population only a fragment is musicologically informed. I am quite aware that, as a practicing musician with musicological interests, you are able to be aware of things that many of us are not.
Let me say that I do indeed also read Anne's posts and I am sorry if she felt any misunderstanding. I am quite aware of what she says of her own music habits. We each have his own way of enjoying this music.
Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote:
<< This interesting way of hearing brings to mind that, when I listened to the 5th VIOLIN and Keyboard sonata as played by Dubois and Maas some 15 days after my initial reaction to the 4th sonata, I heard gorgeous violin playing but barely any representation of the keyboard. >>
Bradley Lehman wrote:
< That's a recording from 1933, right? From the web samples I've heard, I was surprised that the piano has as much presence as it does, given the recording vintage...while the music could still stand to have more. And violin and piano certainly don't blend in the same way that a good harpsichord and a gut-strung Baroque violin (played with a light bow) do. Violin and piano tend to compete with one another.... >
Well, I thank you for the insight bc. playing Dubois/Mass back to back with a current Harpsichord/Violin recording is a disappointing experience precisely bc. on the modern recording the Harpsichord floods one at times.
< I like the samples. Did Dubois/Maas record all six of those sonatas, or only the last three? >
I found this at Broinc. I like to sample off the beaten track items. I have no idea and I don't believe that Aryeh's discographies are beyond the vocal material at this point. I am surprised that with a population of over 800 here, others more informed don't respond. |
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Yoël L. Arbeitman wrote (May 31, 2009):
Harry W. Crosby wrote:
< Since I am not a musician, I cannot make technical arguments for my choices in any comparison, but I can claim to have a personal vision of Bach's musical speech and of those who read it off the page with the inflections and expressiveness that best reflect my vision. >
I am reasonably sure, having participated in various music lists over much of the last decade, that what you say about your own personal vision applies reasonably so to all of us music-lovers who are not musicologically or even musically trained. But, in the end, I often find that experts respond to exactly what repels me (maybe too strong a word?) and often are repelled by what enchants me. We each, with due consideration to worthy suggestions of others, need to respond to our own hearing in listening to music.
< All I can ask anyone who might be interested is that they manage somehow to hear the performances that I love. At best, they may find something to admire; at worst, they will know better where to pigeon-hole me! >
I fail, sorry, to understand how this is possible. None of us (with a rare exception) is going to buy all the many recordings of each Bach work, all the more so that each of us listens to other composers and other genres of music as well. The recordings are mostly copyright, so even if you wished, you cannot put them up on a website. Few of us have access to library type collections of all recordings. In the end most of us judge from the few recordings we have. Currently I find very little Bach on the radio, but a lot of everyone's recordings of Mahler. I do get a chance often to decide about numerous Mahler recordings from the radio but not Bach (occasionally something that TNT or the Bachfest plays will truly entice me and often it is already unavailable). Occasionally magic happens like with the Hilde Rössl-Majdan "Es ist vollbracht". The first request I made on Operashare was for that. There happened to be an odd (good sense) collector who had the Preinfalk Johannes-Passion (which I had searched for for years) and who was happy to send it to me. But there are not many Bach trading places for rarities as there are for opera. |
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Continue on Part 3 |
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