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Recordings & Discussions of Cantatas: Cantatas BWV 1-50 | Cantatas BWV 51-100 | Cantatas BWV 101-150 | Cantatas BWV 151-200 | Cantatas BWV 201-224 | Cantatas BWV Anh | Order of Discussion

Cantata BWV 216
Vergnügte Pleißenstadt [Fragment]
Cantata BWV 216a
Erwählte Pleißenstadt: Apollo et Mercurius
Discussions - Part 1

Previous Messages

Simon Brewer wrote (December 24, 1999):
Hello, I've been able to hear all the Bach cantatas except this one. The official JS Bach page said it wasn't spurious but was incomplete. Has there been a recording of it or is it too 'incomplete'.

JohSebastianBach wrote (January 4, 2000):
BWV 216 is like BWV 190, only worse. I am away from my research library at the moment, so I have to rely on my memory, such as it is:

What survives of BWV 216 are the two violin parts from an original set of performing parts, and, with the possible exception of one aria that I have the vague recollection that JSB may have used elsewhere, there is simply not enough to work with to make any kind of a credible "reconstruction" of a putative original.

 

A Score of BWV 216 Was Discovered [BeginnersBach]

Sato Fumitaka wrote (April 3, 2004):
The following is a translated page of Mainichi Shinbun News Paper in Japan: http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr

cited:

"2004 April 03rd
Bach:
The musical score of premiere, after 80 years you discover in Japan

Bach whom the music scholar of the world has searched (1685 - 1750) the musical score "of marriage cantata BWV216" was discovered in Japan. Under Bach's supervision with the original part 譜 which is copied, it was used the case of premiere before approximately 300 years. It is the most valuable one in the Bach data, but it was location unclear from before approximately 80 years. The musical score of the personal effects of the pianist and field Tieko who participated in Europe judgement, the original was understood on end of the last year, national music large purchased recently. In music history, it became biggest discovery.

This musical score B4 format large paper is written by page 8 with the black ink, the paper has changed color to brown, but it is good mastering condition. The woman where with tune of the Bach zenith period which is written because of wedding of the daughter of the tariff government official who in 1728 was done in Germany & Leipzig, the ナイセ river which the soprano sings and the プライセ river which alto sings appear, from the ナ イ セ river levee marry to the ply セ river levee is praised.

This musical score, after エマニ �.エル Bach of the son inherits, 1901, was for the first time released in the Berlin Bach exhibition over the hand of the collector and the like. However, after 20 ages, location stops understanding, on the basis of the up-to-date data in Germany is issued, whereabouts obscurity it is clearly written even in the "new Bach complete works".

As for judgement, focusing on 礒 mountain elegance national sound great professor, great professor detailed Kobayashi justice military affairs Seijo and マルティン ゲック ドルト& #12512;ント great professors of Germany hit in Bach's handwriting, from the photograph and the like of 1900 age beginning which copy beginning 16 neatness, the musical score which is lost specified. As for this musical score the bereaved family of メンデルスゾーン of the composer the owner does not understand lastly. Because the Spanish cellist where the field gets married, gas pearl カサド, this bereaved family it is intimate, that it is presumed whether it is not to procure.

&#30994; mountain professor "being to be the original data which only hands down this cantata, very much valuable. There is a restoration musical score and the like in this tune, but because, none of them being this original, is something which you revise, it understood "that the difference is a variety, you say. From the German Bach laboratory and the like, it is in accordance with the inquiry and this original musical score, you say that an application that has come successively, we would like "to premiere". < At the time of plum Tsu ratio old >

* Information the decisive manuscript which is plugged

Bach really using in practice, and the production it did again to indicate the original part &#35676; of the story Bach's of university Professor Yukio Miyake of the music critic Keio, finely, in a manner of speaking it hits against the decisive manuscript, this much there are no important ones. Information of the maximum regarding Bach has been plugged.

* Word & cantata

Type of the music which designates the song which is born in Italy of 17 centuries as the center. Bach who is called the father of music created the tune of approximately 1100, but the church cantata of approximately 200 tunes which among those are sung at the church and the world worldly cantata of approximately 20 tunes which are composed because of event of every day occupy important position. It enters into the world worldly cantata, as for the "marriage cantata" there are 3 tunes, as for those which this time are discovered, "are full and capital of &#12503;&#12521;&#12452;&#12475; which it can be enough" also they are entitled.

* You are surprised to unfortunate destiny, in the field Tieko personal effects

In the original musical score of Bach's "marriage cantata" being discovered in Japan, it is secure for the music circle of the world to boil up. The researcher does not hide the surprise evenly in the unfortunate destiny.

As for this musical score, field Tieko who is named the pianist of legend (1914 - 2001) love was put in the piano concerto 2nd musical score of Chopin's whom it has played, cleanly.

While in 13 years old in the Paris national music institute studying abroad, in 18 years old winning for the first time in Chopin international competition as for the field prior to world war 2, as a Japanese pianist, "the miraculous selection of Orient" cracking in Europe, in Japan you were treated coldly. It could not accept to the Japanese of that time critic the performance where European sensitivity is refined. Revaluation is advanced e.g., recently, the performance tape of the time is converted to CD.

As for the field in 59, the master of the cello which at that time is 60 years old, you got married with gas pearl &#124 59;&#12469;&#12489;. After &#12459;&#12469;&#12489; dying in 66, passion was poured to raising the young musician e.g., umbrella &#12489; competition is sponsored.

The valuable musical score and the book of &#12459;&#12469;&#12489; possession were contributed to the Tamagawa school education museum which is the &#12422; temporary, but as for the musical score of this Chopin's piano concerto the field retained. The largest treasure had entered in that.

Inquiring about the performance of travel to mother country for temporary visit of the field at the time 2 years of junior high schools, as for Hironori Iwai of the music critic who receives sign "as for discovery of Bach's musical score it seems like dream for the Japanese music circle. Through &#12459;&#12469;&#12489; Bach's greatness you know, isn't the field to make that original musical score most important? The romance which cannot be said at all is felt ", that you say.

The &#30994; mountain elegance which it judged (it was and the &#12381; and to produce) national sound great professor "researched long time and Bach, but never you attend to the actual place of such discovery with you did not think among lifetimes. The thing oven which is in the musical score of the field it is it is strange. As for this musical score, also the writing style having made lively, atmosphere of life of that time is transmitted. As for the part where correcting is added, there is also a possibility Bach writing directly ", that turns the musical score the &#12427; hand trembles.

This musical score has changed color to brown, but it is good mastering condition. The national sound which comes to the point of retaining with large the specially made safe is pr, you say that know-how of retention inquires at the German laboratory. As for the original musical score there to be many times when it deteriorates raggedly, because in the music circle of the world retention has become big problem. < At the time of plum Tsu ratio old >

[ Everyday newspaper April 3rd ] (2004-04-03-03:12)

This article is made with NewsML. When logograph the right is clicked, you can see the source of NewsML. International newspaper telecommunications council (IPTC) has recognized this NewsML.

Sato Fumitaka wrote (April 3, 2004):
Sorry I missed posting the original page of the article, which you can translate through the link above: http://www.mainichi.co.jp/news/selection/20040403k0000m040158001c.html

Sato Fumitaka wrote (April 3, 2004):
Here is a link to a photo of the score (the link must be cut and pasted in one line to work): http://www.mainichi.co.jp/news/journal/photojournal/archive/200404/03/040351-1.jpg

The score is bought by Kunitachi College of Music in Japan, and they will have some kind of announcement shortly. I would follow this topic.

Sato Fumitaka wrote (April 3, 2004):
BBC News: "Lost Bach score found in Japan"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3596027.stm

citation:
----------

Bach was a prolific composer
A lost musical score by German composer Johann Sebastian Bach has been found in Japan, scholars have revealed.

The 1728 composition, called "Wedding Cantata BWV 216," was found among the papers of Japanese pianist Chieko Hara, who died in Japan in 2001 aged 86.

The work, written for the wedding of a daughter of a German customs official, was missing for 80 years.

Professors at the Kunitachi College of Music in Tokyo say they may release copies for future performances.

'Invaluable material'

The eight-page handwritten composition contains soprano and alto parts with notes and lyrics written in German, Professor Tadashi Isoyama said.

It is not clear how Hara obtained the manuscript - its last known owner was a descendant of German composer Felix Mendelssohn.

However, researchers believe Hara may have obtained it from her husband - Spanish cellist Gaspar Cassado, who knew Mendelssohn's descendant.

Born in Eisenach, Germany in 1685, Bach is acknowledged as one of the world's most prolific composers and as a master of the baroque music style.

"This is invaluable material that will lead to greater understanding of Bach," Professor Isoyama told French news agency AFP.

 

BWV 216 score: lost & found... [BCML]

Riccardo Nughes wrote (April 3, 2004):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3596027.stm

Thomas Braatz wrote (April 3, 2004):
A quick glance at Aryeh's site at http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV216-D.htm where a link to a reproduction of the 'score' is given makes clear that this find does very little to further our knowledge about or complete the missing parts of this fragmentary cantata. There is quite a bit of hype (as well as mistranslation: 'score' = 'original parts' the latter not even complete) involved in this announcement.


The NBA I/40 KB has included all the available music and text for BWV 216 that can reliably be attributed to J. S. Bach. The 8 pages in question here are simply the 2 parts (Soprano & Alto) of which the beginning of the Alto part is given in the link above; and a similar facsimile (but only partial) of the Soprano part in given in the NBA. The NBA prints out all the reliable music & text but has not attempted to include any reconstruction of the missing parts which are also not included in the 'find' mentioned above. The provenance is a complicated one. Even after the 'disappearance' of these parts after an auction in 1901 (everything fully documented including the sale price of 990 marks,) work continued on the reconstruction of this cantata. One such reconstruction by Georg Schumann (with English translation by C. Sanford Terry) was scored for 2 flutes, oboe, and violoncello + Klavier (very likely piano) and was published in 1924. An earlier reconstruction can be traced back to a copy from Vienna dated November 1846 where it is quite apparent that the continuo (fully realized) part was added by Simon Sechter. This copy + reconstruction goes by the name of the owner, Aloys Fuchs.

The NBA used the following sources for comparison:

1) a facsimile of the original Soprano part (1st 16 ms. only)

2) the copy of the voice parts from Aloys Fuchs' copy

3) the printed version of the voice parts based upon the original parts - the Georg Schumann printed reconstruction

4) 8 examples excerpted by Wolffheim (1918) from the original parts

5) the text directly from a Picander book (1729)

6) the parody sources for mvt. 3 from BWV 204/8

7) the parody sources for mvt. 7 from BWV 205/13

Sato Fumitaka wrote (April 3, 2004):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< A quick glance at Aryeh's site at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV216-D.htm where a link to a reproduction of the 'score' is given makes clear that this find does very little to further our knowledge about or complete the missing parts of this fragmentary cantata. There is quite a bit of hype (as well as mistranslation: 'score' = 'original parts' the latter not even complete) involved in this announcement. >
It must be noted that the parts found were for the premiere performance and copied under Bach's supervision. It could contain indications made by Bach for the actual performance.

Juozas Rimas wrote (April 4, 2004):
Thomas Braatz wrote:
< A quick glance at Aryeh's site at: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV216-D.htm where a link to a reproduction of the 'score' is given makes clear that this find does very little to further our knowledge about or complete the missing parts of this fragmentary cantata. There is quite a bit of hype (as well as mistranslation: 'score' = 'original parts' the latter not even complete) involved in this announcement. >
I still don't understand: is there anything new in the found material that was unknown to NBA earlier? Is the material as complete as to allow a recording?

I also wonder whether the late Chieko know he had the manuscript and if he did, why had he been concealing it?

Also, is there any material to read about searches for Bach's lost manuscripts? There should have been scientists, fervent enough to "hunt" for any extant scores - it'd be interesting to know of their searches. Eg who found the BWV 1053 etc concertos, Neumeister chorales, the 14 small canons etc.

Sato Fumitaka wrote (April 4, 2004):
Juozas Rimas wrote:
< I still don't understand: is there anything new in the found material that was unknown to NBA earlier? Is the material as complete as to allow a recording? >
The manuscript of the parts found is reported that it was the one used for the premiere performance and that it has multiple differences from the incomplete ones that are published currently.

< I also wonder whether the late Chieko know he had the manuscript and if he did, why had he been concealing it? >
The manuscript is reported that it was probably handed from her (Chieko is a feminine name) husband Gaspar Cassado (cellist) who knew Mendelssohn's descendant, and that last known owner of the manuscript was the descendant of German composer Felix Mendelssohn.

My conjecture is that Chieko Hara had not particular interest in musicology around Bach, J.S., and probably she had forgot about the manuscript among her Chopin scores.

 

"Lost" Bach score [BACH-LIST]

Rick Deaslay wrote (April 3, 2004):
Hello all...

Interesting article on the BBC website at
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3596027.stm regarding a lost Bach
score discovered in Japan.

Kat Nagel wrote (April 3, 2004):
[To Rick Deasley] Seems to be an epidemic of recent discoveries of 'lost' manuscripts of the Bach family. Randy Black, the tenor soloist in the Rochester Bach Festival this spring, was preparing for the US premiere of a newly discovered Passion by CPE Bach on March 28. A few details of the discovery and the performance are available online.
<http://www.tennessean.com/entertainment/arts/archives/04/03/48874828.shtml>
<http://www.tennessean.com/entertainment/arts/archives/04/03/48571170.shtml>
<http://www.nashvillerecord.com/news/stories/20040311/Bach_Passion.shtml>

Drew Pierce wrote (April 3, 2004):
Kat Nagel wrote:
< Seems to be an epidemic of recent discoveries of 'lost' manuscripts of the Bach family. >
Let there be a pandemic -- at least a third of Sebastian Bach's cantatas are "lost," no?

Santu De Silva wrote (April 4, 2004):
[To Drew Pierce] I read in Christoph Wolff's writings (not sure which book, think it was Learned Musician) that as a percentage, more instrumental music has probably been lost than vocal music. Because most of the vocal music went to CPE (who took good care of it), and most of the instrumental went to WF (who squandered it paying drinking debts, lost it in household moves, and the like).

As an instrumental fan, I find it particularly painful to contemplate.

 

Original vocal parts of BWV 216 resurfaced in Japan [BachAndHandelResearchResources]

Dr Yo Tomita [School of Music, Queen's University Belfast, Northern Ireland, UK, Bach Bibliography] wrote (April 3, 2004):
Good news for Bach lovers.
http://www.reuters.com/locales/newsArticle.jsp?type=entertainmentNews&locale=en_IN&storyID=4741997

03 Apr 2004 06:34

Bach score found in Japan after 80 years - scholar TOKYO (Reuters) - Part of a 1728 musical score composed by Johann Sebastian Bach has been found in Japan nearly 80 years after it went missing, a scholar said on Saturday.

The "Wedding Cantata BWV 216", composed in 1728, was found in the possessions of Japanese pianist Chieko Hara who died in December 2001, said Tadashi Isoyama, a professor of Kunitachi College of Music in Tokyo. Hara was 87 when she died.

The eight-page work contained notes and lyrics written in German, said Isoyama, who determined the authenticity of the Bach piece and whose view was shared by other researchers.

"This has been missing for nearly 80 years," Isoyama said.

The work was created for the wedding of a daughter of a customs official, Isoyama said. It was passed over from his family to collectors and musicians before reaching the family of German composer Felix Mendelssohn who had it until around 1926.

Experts, including Isoyama, believe Hara's Spanish husband received it from Mendelssohn's family.

 

Lost Bach score found in Japan [rec.music.classical.recordings]

Pete wrote (April 3, 2004):
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3596027.stm

Matthew B. Tepper wrote (April 3, 2004):
[To Pete] I'm suspicious; how do we know this wasn't an April 1st article?

Also, whatever happened with that Ukrainian archive which was expected to yield lots of Bach material?

Thomas Wood wrote (April 3, 2004):
[To Matthew B. Tepper] The Berlin Singakademie Archives, looted by the Russians in 1945 and taken to Kiev, were returned to Berlin in 2000 and Christoph Wolff and others have been sorting through them.

No one really expected it to contain unknown works by J.S Bach, because the editors of the Bach Gesellschaft back in the 19th century had access to the material. It does contains very valuable manuscripts in Bach's hand (including a motet by his uncle Johann Christoph that he arranged in 1750 for his own funeral).

And it HAS yielded new works by Telemann (like there was a shortage?), various composers at the Prussian court, CPE and WF Bach, and some earlier members of the Bach family. Two lost passions by CPE Bach were recently performed and recorded, as have some flute concertos by CPE, WF and others (see: http://www.musicweb.uk.net/classrev/2003/Mar03/Bach_Hofmann_flute.htm
for example).

Matthew B. Tepper wrote (April 4, 2004):
[To Thomas Wood] Well, still good news, then. And funny that you should happen to mention Chuck-Phil-Manny, because an eBay purchase brought me yesterday Rilling's recording of his Magnificat. Not the old Argo one that I liked many years ago (Ledger? Guest? I can't recall who conducted that one), but I can't imagine that Rilling will mess it up.

Richard Schultz wrote (April 4, 2004):
Thomas Wood wrote: < And it HAS yielded new works by Telemann >
As Dorothy Parker once said, how can they tell?

Matthew B. Tepper wrote (April 4, 2004):
[To Richard Schultz] As her competitor Moses Hadas once said, it fills a much needed gap.

Jon Bell wrote (April 4, 2004):
[To Richard Schultz] How to Tell-a-mann? Easy! If it's not a woman, then... (I bet Dorothy Parker would have thought of that, from what I've read about her.)

 

Bach's Wedding Cantata

Cleofide wrote (March 20, 2005):
I am sure many of you are aware of the discovery of the Bach's Wedding Cantata in Japan last spring. I've just read a news in Mainichi: http://www.mainichi-msn.co.jp/geinou/music/news/20050321k0000m040060000c.html
that the recontructed cantata was performed for the first time yesterday. There seemes to be a Japanese article only at this moment, but I think it will be in their English news page by tommorrow.

Charles Francis wrote (March 20, 2005):
Cleofide wrote:

< I am sure many of you are aware of the discovery of the Bach's Wedding Cantata in Japan last spring. >
Anyone know more about this?

Cleofide wrote (March 20, 2005):
[To Charles Francis] This is the news from last year: http://www.japantimes.co.jp/weekly/news/nn2004/nn20040410a7.htm

Missing Bach score found Part of a musical score composed by Johann Sebastian Bach (1685-1750) missing for about 80 years has been found, a music college professor said April 3.... [snip]

Nagamiya Tutomu wrote (March 20, 2005):
[To Charles Francis] It is "Vergnuegte Pleissenstadt" BWV 216 that was reconstructed by Joshua Rifkin from only soprano and alto parts. The original parts had been long lost and rediscovered last year in Japan from the articles left by the late Ms. Hara Chieko, the wife of Gaspar Cassado. The music itself (soprano and alto parts) was already known before the discovery, that is, before it's loss. Even a reconstructed score was published ( Schlesingersche Buch und Musikhandlung, Berlin, 1924 ) .

BTW, the movement 3 is said to be a parody of BWV 204 / 8 and the movement 7 of BWV 205 / 13. So there would be firm foundations for reconstruction of these movements. Other movements, I think, would need composition rather than reconstruction.

Aryeh Oron wrote (March 20, 2005):
[To Charles Francis, Cleofide & Nagamiya Tutomu]
The story of this cantata was discussed about a year ago in several ML, including the BCML. See: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV216-D.htm

Eventually, it will also be recorded and I shall be able to update the page of recordings of this cantata: http://www.bach-cantatas.com/BWV216.htm

Charles Francis wrote (March 20, 2005):
My thankto everyone who responded on this.

Sato Fumitaka wrote (March 23, 2005):
[To Cleofide] At least 3 links are readily given for this topic..
http://mdn.mainichi.co.jp/news/20050321p2a00m0dm011000c.html
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/entertainment/music/4367967.stm
http://www.playbillarts.com/news/article/1659.html

 

Continue on Part 2

Cantatas BWV 216 & BWV 216a: Details & Discography of BWV2 16 | Details of BWV 216a | Discussions: Part 1 | Part 2

Recordings & Discussions of Cantatas: Cantatas BWV 1-50 | Cantatas BWV 51-100 | Cantatas BWV 101-150 | Cantatas BWV 151-200 | Cantatas BWV 201-224 | Cantatas BWV Anh | Order of Discussion

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