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Cantata BWV 82
Ich habe genug
Discussions - Part 1


Ehud Shiloni wrote (September 16, 1998):
[23] I have just posted on the Bach Page the following little gem which you may say is "desert island" material:
Solo bass cantatas BWV 56 ("Kreuzstab") and BWV 82 ("Ich Habe Genug").
Soloist baritone: Max van Egmond ("Who are the great voices"...); Conductor: Frans Brüggen, directing a small original instruments ensemble going by the name of "Baroque Orchestra".

The recording is from 1977, originally issued on the Seon label, and now re-issued in 1998 by Sony after successful re-mastering. Barely 40 minutes of recorded music, but the CD is budget priced, and the performance is very-very good (Handkerchiefs required).

I would like to quote from the inner cover:
"My founding of the Seon label (1970-1980) came about from my desire to begin recording the emerging stars of the early music movement. After several years of experimentation and pioneering work during the infancy of Das Alte Werk, I felt the time was ripe to create a record label for period music, which, with the benefit of the most advanced recording techniques then available, would ensure that the extraordinary performances of Frans Brüggen, Anner Bylsma, the Kuijkens, Gustav Leonhardt and Konrad Ruhland would be preserved, and, beyond that, take their rightful place beside the acclaimed greats of the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. - Wolf Erichson".

Wolf Erichson is the producer and recording supervisor on this CD, and I see his name popping up as a producer on other Bach CD's on Sony. It seems Mr. Erichson deserves a big hand from this list!

1.Can anyone elaborates more about Erichson and about his role in JSB/HIP recordings?
2.Who is the artist Konrad Ruhland (listed by Erichson among the HIP pioneers)?

Many thinks for any info, and again: This CD is indeed a little gem.

Carlo Gerelli wrote (September 16, 1998):
Ehud Shiloni wrote:
[23] < Solo bass cantatas BWV 56 ("Kreuzstab") and BWV 82 ("Ich Habe Genug"). Soloist baritone: Max van Egmond ("Who are the great voices"...); Conductor: Frans Brüggen, directing a small original instruments ensemble going by the name of "Baroque Orchestra". The recording is from 1977, originally issued on the Seon label >
I completely agree: I own that Seon LP since 14-15 years, (it was released in 1980) and it has always been one of my favourite pearls. I just can't hide my Dutch-bias. (Brüggen, Leonhardt, Bylsma, the Kuijkens, etc. etc., and now Koopman, Wispelwey, etc.). Now every time I see the CD version I am tempted to re-buy it! Strongly recommended ... and add Paul Dombrecht on Oboe on BWV 56, and Bob van Asperen on positiv!

Laurent Planchon wrote (September 16, 1998):
Ehud Shiloni wrote:
[23] < Solo bass cantatas BWV 56 ("Kreuzstab") and BWV 82 ("Ich Habe Genug"). Soloist baritone: Max van Egmond ("Who are the great voices"...); Conductor: Frans Brüggen, directing a small original instruments ensemble going by the name of "Baroque Orchestra". The recording is from 1977, originally issued on the Seon label >
I am a big fan of Van Egmond, and obviously I did not hesitate very long to get this one, but curiously enough I was very disappointed. Not by Van Egmond who is always very good, but by the orchestra and their way to play Bach. I am not sure why though, since there are very big names in this group, but I feel very uncomfortable with their playing which does not sound idiomatic to my ears. I prefer the Harnoncourt/Leonhardt versions with two different basses (Huttenlocher and van der Meer). Too bad they did not record them with Van Egmond who was the rest of the time often invited to sing in their series (Both Huttenlocher and Van der Meer are very good though). Which raises the question why? Does anybody know? And BTW, if somebody could tell me why the always genial Harnoncourt stopped working with Van Egmond in the cantata series just after the beginning? They did a lot of very good stuff together (among them the St Matthew) and I find it strange that they stopped after a while. Didn't they get along well together?

Ehud Shiloni wrote (September 17, 1998):
Laurent Planchon wrote:
[23] < curiously enough I was very disappointed. Not by Van Egmond who is always very good, but by the orchestra and their way to play Bach. I am not sure why though, since there are very big names in this group, but I feel very uncomfortable with their playing which does not sound idiomatic to my ears. >
When my post shows up on the Bach Page you will see my comment that the instrumental sound was kind of "thin" and that later day HIP performances delivered better results. I have to agree with you that this aspect of the performance was not ideal, but for me that deficiency was not sufficient to spoil the overall enjoyment. Thanks for your comment, though, because it balances the picture, before people rush out to buy...;)


Cantatas by La Petite Bande

Piotr Stanislawski wrote (June 13, 1999):
Aya wrote:
[47] < This recording is very good. I bought it around Christmas last year, have been listening to it almost every night before going to bed for the past few months (or I try to), always find something new to be moved. Both the instrumental playing (incl. Marcel Ponseele, Pierre Hantaï, and Suzuki Hidemi) and the singing are impressive. Mertens and Argenta - both got gorgeous voices. By all means - if you can buy this for $15 - buy! It's the equivalent of what I pay for lunch (well in Tokyo it is), not very much for something so precious. >
Marcel's Ponseele oboe playing in cantata BWV 82 "Ich habe genung" on this recording is wonderful, almost magic. In fact his playing absorbed my attention more than singing of Klaus Martens in opening movement. The playing of others of La Petite Bande is also very impressive. But my favorite recording of this cantata is La Chapelle Royale - P. Herreweghe with beautiful bass singing of Peter Kooy. His singing - warm, peaceful, spiritual - is very moving. I can hardly imagine the arias "Ich habe genung" and "Schlummert ein" can be sung and played more delightful. This recording "Cantatas for bass" includs two other great bass cantatas: BWV 158 and BWV 56. Nancy Argenta also recorded this cantata with Ensemble
Sonniere - M. Huggett on Virgin [45].

Simon Crouch wrote (December 21, 1999):
Simon Crouch wrote:
<< 2. Your pick for the best Bach recording of the century
- Hans Hotter's cantata BWV 82
[3]. >>
Wim Huisjes wrote:
< Please share with us where you found that one... >
[3] It's on EMI CDH 763198-2, coupled with Brahms' four serious songs and miscellaneous other Brahms songs. However it is on EMI, so the likelihood of it: being in print; available in your territory; available from their "special" import service; etc might be somewhat random.

Incidentally, BBC Radio 3 did BWV 82 in their "building a library" program recently - The two choices were Kuijken on Accent [47] and, as an historical choice (sui generis and all that), Hotter [3].

Patrik Enander wrote (January 21, 2000):
[47] (Ponseele's playing in) BWV 82 with Kuijken, is magic to me.

Aryeh Oron wrote (January 26, 2000):
Next week is the week of the famous cantata BWV 82 - 'Ich Habe Genug' (according to Ehud Shiloni suggestion). I am sure that everyone in this list has at least one recording of this cantata. So please do your homework and be prepared for the discussion.

Ehud Shiloni wrote (January 27, 2000):
About BWV 82: This past Sunday, in the Tel Aviv Musconcert hall, I heard the divine miss Emma [Kirkby] delivering the Soprano [with flute] version of this cantata, one week ahead of our own schedule....

Marie Jensen wrote (January 29, 2000):
From my youth I remember Hermann Prey (I guess) who sung this recitative and filled the words with magic, especially the word NUN, I'm sure the most important word for Bach at all, the death moment. Many singers have broken their necks on it. It seems so easy and simple, compared with singing a long Aria, but to put those words the right way demands a lot. In a way it is similar to Händel’s "Behold I'll tell you a Mystery" from Messiah. But back to Bach: Recitatives always lead to something. That is why they in all their simplicity are so important, in particular here where the last Aria at least the first time is a giant surprise and contrast to what we just heard.

But magic is central to the whole cantata: From the intense longing in the first movement to the hypnotising cradlesong to the recitative prayer and the ecstatic joy of eternal life in the final Aria.

I know it makes no sense to write a review of a live recording from the radio, because it's an experience we probably never will have in common. But I have recorded from the radio James Weaver and "American Baroque Soloists". He has in spite of a strong accent this magic too. He nearly whispers "Schlummert ein", carefully, intense like something precious would disappear if he was singing too loud, like he stands nearly breathless in front of a wonder. He's also very expressive in the "Schöne NUN!" and brings out the dancing joy of the last Aria very well.

[23] I also have a CD version with Max van Egmond and Frans Brüggen (1977). Egmond does a fine job, but though he is expressive, he never reaches the heights mentioned above. But being in the pioneer HIP period, he is probably performing on other conditions. So is the oboe and I don't like it, especially in the first movement, where it has to sing filled with longing. It is too snarling and angular. But in the last Aria where the oboe dances, it doesn't matter so much. This is all in all an acceptable recording.

[47] I would like very much to hear about the Mertens / Kuijken version, which I'm planning to buy in the near future.


Discussions in the Week of January 30, 2000

Aryeh Oron wrote (January 31, 2000)

This is the week of cantata BWV 82, one of the most recorded of them all. I believe that the simple reason is that it uses only one soloist and no choir. Therefore it is not so difficult to arrange the suitable forces to perform it. It is also very popular because the strength of the music and the words, which makes it almost a guaranteed success with the audience. 3 Arias of the highest quality, different from each other, and 2 attractive Recitatives. I have already 14 recorded performances, almost none of them is a failure and I do not believe that I can avoid having more. Before listening to the various performances of this sublime and heartening cantata, I have read very carefully the opinions in the following sites:

I recommend everybody who reads this message to do the same. You will be able to see that no one thinks badly about the performance he chose to write about. Everyone has his favourite performance and I would not like to disappoint anybody.

Review of the Recordings

The 14 performances I have listened to (in chronological order) are: Cantata BWV 82 - Recordings.

This time I am not going to enter into detailed comparison. There are (too) many recordings of this cantata and it will take too much space and energy. My solution is simple, if somewhat superficial. I divided the recordings into 5 categories:

A+ - If I was forced to choose only one, this would be it.
A - First rate. Should be included in every cantatas collection.
B - Second rate. If you can allow yourself, get it.
C - Third rate. A recording I could live without having it.
D - A recording I personally do not like.

And here are my suggested ratings:

A+ - Anthony Bernard / Hans Hotter [3]
A - Karl Richter / Dietrich Fischer Dieskau [17], Nikolaus Harnoncourt / Philippe Huttenlocher [25], Philippe Herreweghe / Peter Kooy [40]
B - Geraint Jones / Gérard Souzay [6], Helmuth Rilling / Dietrich Fischer Dieskau [28], Joshua Rifkin / Jan Opalach [36], Pieter Jan Leusink / Bas Ramselaar [45]
C - Helmuth Winschermann / Gérard Souzay [18], Jeffrey Thomas / William Sharp [31], Karl-Friedrich Beringer / Siegmund Nimsgern [42], Roy Goodman / Nathalie Stutzmann [49]
D - Andrew Parrott / David Thomas [26], Monica Huggett / Nancy Argenta [45]

But, please remember. All those ratings are very personal and should be taken with caution, because I could not find a really BAD recording of this cantata.

And there are other recordings of BWV 82, which I have not heard yet – young Fischer-Dieskau (before Richter) [4], Marriner/Shirley Quirk [10], Van Egmond/Brüggen [23], Mertens/Kuijken [47] and maybe others. I am not tired yet of hearing this cantata in more performances. Yesterday, I heard BWV 81 in the recording of Karl Richter as a preparation to next week discussion. On the CD just after that came BWV 82 again. When I heard the familiar mourning opening notes of the oboe above the strings, I could not stop the CD player from playing the whole cantata to its very end. Fischer-Dieskau fulfils everything Marie Jensen could wish for (as she described so nicely in her message).

But the last word is dedicated to the wonderful, sensitive, impressive and convincing Hans Hotter [3]. What a glorious voice, smooth like velvet, deep like an ocean, follows every nuance, and misses nothing in intensity. To summarise – the first is the best. I cannot avoid quoting from the charming linear notes of Alan Blythe to Hans Hotter reissue on CD (from 1989): “One of the performances that brought him (Hotter) to the notice of English-speaking audiences was his recording of the Bach cantata for Bass, ‘Ich habe genung’. It appeared in 1950, and I recall cherishing the original 78's, playing them over and over again admiring each time the peculiarly profound utterance of the singer. Hotter brings a wonderful warmth and sincerity to the central lullaby, ‘Schlummert ein’, and an urgent drive to the concluding Aria, where his large voice moves with surprising fleetness through the runs. Today, fashion decrees for lighter Bass for Bach’s music; so much the worse for fashion. It is a reading that hasn’t been surpassed in my experience”. I cannot agree more strongly, and I know this performance for only about a week!

Before sending this message to the group, I listened to this cantata in this performance one more time. I was sitting in my chair. Couple of seconds after it started, when the voice of Hans Hotter entered, I froze. I could not move, the sadness embraced me, and tears came into my eyes.

And as always, I would like to hear other opinions, regarding the above mentioned performances, or other recordings.

Enjoy and Happy Bach Year,

Helen-Anne Ross wrote(January 31, 2000):
I have just joined. Your comments seem very interesting and I am looking forward to learning more about the cantatas and their performance. I have one tiny comment: Cantata BWV 82 has already been referred to a couple of times (so I take it that it is not the typo I initially thought it was) as "Ich habe genung" - while "genug" is the German for "enough". See elsewhere on the net, including:

Jane Newble wrote (February 1, 2000):
Although I had listened to all my recordings of BWV 82 at the weekend, yesterday I had to listen again, with the sad news of Wim's death in mind. And I began to listen to the 'aber dort, dort werd'ich schauen’ line in the 'Schlummert ein' Aria. I noticed how some just sing over it, as if it really didn't mean much. To my surprise, it was Jan Opalach, in Joshua Rifkin's recording [36], who puts such longing into those two words 'dort, dort', the second time he sings it (I am not a great lover of his voice), and also Klaus Mertens.

[47] Only a few days ago I received that absolutely wonderful CD of Kuijken and La Petite Bande, with Klaus Mertens. After hearing BWV 82 on that, I feel that it is the most beautiful version I have heard, so far. Klaus Mertens is in total control of his fantastic voice, and he sings with feeling. In the recitative 'Mein Gott, wann kommt das Schöne: Nun!’, he sings 'und dort bei dir im Schosze ruhn’ so softly and with such expectation. The instrumental part is wonderful, too. The oboe is all one can wish for, and it is all recorded with such clarity. With some singers I had the feeling they were singing for an audience, with some affectation in some areas. With Klaus Mertens I feel he sings to honour the music, and to express the heart of the cantata.

Of course, reading what Aryeh and Marie said about other Basses, I realise that there remains always something else to look out for.

Aryeh Oron wrote:
[3] < 1. Anthony Bernard/Philharmonia Orchestra (EMI, recorded 1950) Baritone - Hans Hotter >
Aryeh, do you know if this is available on CD? Your comments have made me want to listen to it.

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 1, 2000):
[47] I have not had the opportunity to listen to Mertens/Kuijken version of BWV 82. However, I became interested from what I had read in this list. I ordered it and hope to get it and hear it very soon.

[3] Yes - I have it on CD, coupled with some Brahms songs. I ordered it a short while ago from and got it within a week (from UK to Israel!). To find it, you have to type the words 'bach hotter' in the Search box, and this item will be the first one that will pop up as an answer. It is not expensive and I suggest grabbing it as long as it is still available.

Ryan Michero wrote (February 2, 2000):
Well, I have done my homework this week listening to my collection of BWV 82 recordings, which isn't nearly as impressive as Aryeh's. However, I'm surprised I have a couple that Aryeh doesn't, including a modern-instrument version!

[47] The first recording I listened to was the one by Klaus Mertens conducted by Kuijken on Accent. This one is absolutely top-notch. I must make special mention of the orchestra in this one--a small chamber ensemble made up of members of La Petite Bande. These include Hidemi Suzuki (cello), Marcel Ponseele (oboe), Ryo Terakado (violin), and Pierre Hantaï (organ)--what a line-up! The whole group sounds wonderful, but Ponseele is the standout in BWV 82. He plays the oboe line of the first Aria as if all of the mysteries of the world are contained within it. This is simply some of the most expressive and wonderful period-instrument oboe playing I've heard. Klaus Mertens is undoubtedly a fine singer--expressive, technically assured, intelligent, and possessing of a lovely voice. My brain tells me this is my favourite recording of this cantata...

[40] But my heart tells me it's the version with Peter Kooy under Herreweghe. I shouldn't like this version more--the orchestra doesn't sound as nice as with Kuijken, Marcel Ponseele's playing seems a bit less inspired here, and Herreweghe tends to over-romanticise. It's just that my heart pretty much melts whenever Kooy opens his mouth! I don't mean to belittle Mertens, who is wonderful, but if Kooy had sung with Kuijken's instrumentalists I would have my perfect version. Perhaps Masaaki Suzuki will record it with Kooy?

[25] I noticed Aryeh gave Harnoncourt's version with Huttenlocher an "A". Well, this one doesn't do it for me. I think Huttenlocher is the problem, sounding a bit forced and singing with a constant vibrato that seems a bit out of place. Once I get past his voice, though, Harnoncourt's version is fine. Are you hearing something I'm missing Aryeh? I'd like to hear your response.

[10] The modern-instrument version I have is by John Shirley-Quirk under Neville Marriner's Academy of St. Martin-In-The-Fields. The recording is dated 1965-66, and the somewhat thin orchestral sound betrays its age. This is an excellent version, though, with expressive singing by Shirley-Quirk and some fine oboe playing by Roger Lord. I would be interested to hear what anyone has to say about Shirley-Quirk's recording compared with other modern-instrument versions. (This disc is a "must-have" in any collection, though, for the gorgeous account of "Vergnügte Ruh" by Janet Baker).

[3] I'll be looking for Hans Hotter's recording of BWV 82. Perhaps it will be reissued in EMI's new historical Bach series?

F. Oreja wrote (February 3, 2000):
I did the same, and I have two recordings still not mentioned too (I think) of 'Ich habe genung' (not a typo, but old German), and the second one also on modern instruments. As it is perhaps known, after composing the well known original version in 1727 Bach re-elaborated the cantata three times (see Dürr p. 733): a) 1731 (1730?) for Soprano in e minor; b) 1735 for Mezzo-soprano in c minor and c) 1745/48 again for Bass.

[45] My first in the list still not mentioned (at least since I rejoined) is very interesting, then it is the version for Soprano from 1731, conducted by Monica Huggett and singed by Nancy Argenta, who has recently recorded with Suzuki, in Virgin. In that version the oboe let his place to traverse flute, and the whole cantata becomes a very different colour. The interpretation is also very good and well structured. The Soprano version of 'Schlummert ein' is sure familiar for the transcription in Anna Magdalene’s Book.

[29] The other one although modern instruments, by Pommer in Capriccio (Edition Bach Leipzig) and singed by Siegfried Lorenz, is still perhaps my preferred. May be the reason is only that it was the first recording of the cantata I ever heard, and in many cases it is determining. It has power and is deeply strength in rhythm (as always with Pommer). In any case, Siegfried Lorenz is for me one of the best Bach-Basses. He can be heard also in the Schreier recordings of the secular cantatas.

Ehud Shiloni wrote (February 3, 2000):
Here is my two-cents about this fabulous cantata:

First - a quote from Joshua Rifkin's [36] own liner notes:
"The text of BWV 82 skilfully captures both the yearning of the weary soul and its joy in the face of death. <Snip> Whatever their parentage, the verses elicit some of Bach's most remarkable music. Nothing he wrote opens more arrestingly than the first Aria, with its murmuring strings and plaintive oboe; nor does anything exceed the subtle ingenuity that sees each new entry of the oboe's theme placed at a different point in the repeated progression of taccompaniment."

I like this descriptive note which highlights the fact that the beauty of the first Aria is equally shared between singer and oboe.

[33] The oboe performance which came in next [IMO] is by Paul Dombrecht on HMF [1988] with René Jacobs singing the Alto version of this cantata. As this CD has not been mentioned yet, here are a few notes: Positives: -Dombrecht on Oboe. -Excellent instrumental support: Chiara Banchini leading the "Ensemble 415". Negatives: - Jacobs' unique voice-colour may be irritating for many ears [I am not thrilled by it either] [BTW: The CD includes also BWV 53 and an exciting version of BWV 35].

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 4, 2000):
It is quite astonishing. It seems to be that most of the members of this list like the performance of Mertens/Kuijken [47], which I do not have yet. Maybe it is because I came back to the Bach world only couple of months ago and started first with the cycles of Rilling, H/L, Suzuki, Richter, Koopman (I still do not have all the volumes), Kruidvat, Ramin, Rotzsch. Only afterwards I started to collect the single albums. However, encouraged by the writing of other members like yourself about the above-mentioned performance, I became curious and ordered it. I am still waiting for it to arrive.

[3] The performance that is the closet to my heart - that of Hotter - was the last one I have got. Actually I received it (from after I had finished to listen and to compare all the other recordings I had. Since that posting, I have listened to Hotter's performance couple more times and now I consider it to be a degree above the others. If I was forced to remain with only one recording of BWV 82 (fortunately, I am not), it would be Hans Hotter. He brings tears to my eyes every time I am listening to him. The conductor and the oboe do also very fine job. And the memory of Wim even strengthens the sadness I feel while listening to this performance of 'Ich Habe Genug'.

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 4, 2000):
This morning I received by mail from a batch of about 30 CD of vocal music by JSB. The batch included 2 more performances of BWV 82.

[47] The first was the one I ordered based on many recommendations from this group. This is the 'famous' Mertens/Kuijken (Accent, recorded 1993). I tend to agree with most of the things written about this performance by Ryan, Ehud, Jane and some others (sorry if I forgot to mention somebody). I would rate it in category 'A'. However, for me it cannot replace the Hotter recording [3], which is my first choice. Indeed, Mertens is sensitive to the meaning of the words, he has beautiful voice, the small orchestra is charming and the oboist is marvellous. But I feel that Hotter digs much deeper into his soul and succeeds in bringing his inner feelings out to the listener.

[8] Hermann Prey (Bass) sings the second 'new' recording. The conductor is Kurt Thomas and the orchestra - Gewandhausorchester (Leipzig Classics, recorded 1960). Prey sings only on the surface of the music and the words. His voice lacks flexibility and emotion. The conductor has very heavy hand on his orchestra and there is no movement. I would rate it 'C' or even 'D'.

[25] (Answer to Ryan’s message from February 2, 2000): Following your remark I re-listen to this recording once again. Although I am always ready to change my mind, this time I will stay with my previous recommendation and rating of Huttenlocher/Harnoncourt recording. Furthermore, this time I noticed certain quality of fear (of death), which Huttenlocher finds in the first Aria. As far as I can recall, he is the only one who finds this feeling in this Aria and I appreciate him for the bravery to be original. I think that Huttenlocher is one of the best Basses in the Rilling cycle. BTW, have you noticed the ‘musical chairs’ between the Basses (or Baritones) in the recordings of this cantata - Fischer Dieskau with Rilling (usually Richter), Huttenlocher with Harnoncourt (usually Rilling), Van Egmond with Brüggen (usually Harnoncourt/Leonhardt), Nimsgern with Beringer (usually Rilling), etc.

[10] I am also very fond of the few Janet Baker’s Bach recordings. I ordered that one couple of weeks ago and hope to get it soon. I did it because I wanted to hear Janet Baker, but following your recommendation, I will listen also to Shirley-Quirk very carefully.

Ryan Michero wrote (February 4, 2000):
[25] Interesting! I'll listen again with your comments in mind. Maybe I'm just not used to his voice. The first time I heard this recording, I though, "Ugh, I don't like his voice." The second time, knowing more what to expect, I could appreciate the details of the interpretation without being distracted by his voice. But I know he'll never approach my admiration for the Kooy [40] and Mertens [47] versions.

(Musical chairs) Strange, isn't it? Perhaps some of these Basses record the work before they join in singing on a "complete" series, so when it comes time to record BWV 82 they pass because they've done it before. I wish Van Egmond had recorded it with Harnoncourt, though.

Jane Newble wrote (February 4, 2000):
[3] Aryeh raved about this recording, and advised me how to get it. I ordered it from on Wednesday-evening, and it came this morning! (Living in the UK has some advantages). I have listened to it only once, and some parts immediately strike me as beautiful, but I want to listen to it more often.

Jane Newble wrote (February 4, 2000):
After having listened several times to Hans Hotter [3], it is still Klaus Mertens [47] who is my absolute favourite. I have to admit I have not heard Peter Kooy [40] (yet), but I cannot imagine he would be better. Of course I am always open to being shown that I am wrong. Klaus Mertens sings with such clarity, that I don't need to read the words. There is no wavering on any notes, he is spot on, and in total control. There are subtle, controlled nuances in feeling and intensity, and he sings with an incredible tenderness, matching that in Bach's music. No one else sings such a heart-felt 'Ach' in the recitative, and the 'aber dort, dort werd' ich schauen’ with such longing. Not to speak of the cradlesong for an old man.... He has obviously studied all the words. This afternoon I got the score from the library, and that made me appreciate his singing even more. I think Bach would have thought all his dreams had come true, had he heard this CD. And after this past week, BWV 82 will be forever connected with Wim.

Johan van Veen wrote (February 4, 2000):
Since this cantata has been discussed over the last week I would like to pass some news - maybe some of you know already. The recording with Max van Egmond (BWV 56 and BWV 82) [23] has been reissued on Sony in the Seon-series. The soprano version with Nancy Argenta has also been reissued on Virgin in a 2 CD set, together with BWV 51, BWV 84, BWV 199, BWV 202 and BWV 209 [45]. Both are sold at bargain prices.

Johan van Veen wrote (February 5, 2000):
[25] (Musical chairs) I agree. Did you know that when Harnoncourt and Leonhardt started their cantata series, there was no plan to have different singers from time to time? In fact, Van Egmond came up with the idea to use other Basses alongside him. That was very nice,of course - and showing modesty, which isn’t the trademark of every singer - but perhaps, not one of his greatest ideas. All the other Basses in the series are inferior to him, in my view.

Dyfan Lewis wrote (February 6, 2000):
Aryeh Oron wrote:
< Before sending this message to the group, I listened to this cantata in this performance one more time. I was sitting in my chair. Couple of seconds after it started, when the voice of Hans Hotter entered, I froze. I could not move, the sadness embraced me, and tears came into my eyes. >
Thank you for your beautiful letter about BWV 82, which I've only just come across.

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 6, 2000):
In the meantime I have received the Mertens/Kuijken recording of BWV 82 [47]. After couple of listening to Mertens, I still find that Hotter [3] is closer to my heart, in his ability to transfer feelings. He almost weeps in the first Aria.

Marie Jensen wrote (February 6, 2000):
[8] A week ago I wrote “From my youth I remember Hermann Prey (I guess) who sung this Recitative and filled the words with magic.” I am sad if I tempted you to buy the recording, especially because I was not sure of the singer, could be Fischer-Dieskau too (I can read from your first mail, it probably was). It is 25 years since, and things were always better in the good old days.

Another thing: this morning I heard in the Danish radio a live recording with van Egmond singing and Koopman conducting "Musica da Camera" Amsterdam. I did not like the heavy orchestra play especially in "Schlummert ein". The coughing audience was not exactly inspiring either.

Aryeh Oron wrote (February 7, 2000):
[8] Marie, you do not have to apologise, for the following reasons:
a. I ordered the Box of Bach's vocal music conducted by Kurt Thomas, which includes BWV 82 with Hermann Prey, couple of weeks ago, before I read your message.
b. Hermann Prey recorded BWV 82 at least one more time. It is available in CD form from Intercord label. I do not have it (yet). The conductor is Winschermann, who did so many other beautiful cantatas. The strong part of his recording of BWV 82 with Gerard Souzay, included in the Philips 5-CD Box, is the conducting more than the singing. Souzay has done much better in his previous recording of this cantata.
c. I have to admit that I am a collector. I mean that I collect every cantata recording that I can put my hands on. This world of Bach's cantatas is so rich and varied and I learn a lot from listening to different recordings of the same cantata, even the mediocre ones.
d. Memory might misguide us. I was out of Bach's music for about 15 years (listening mostly to Jazz) and came back to it only a couple of months ago. In my second round of Bach I am finding myself enjoy recordings I did not like in the past and vice versa. I believe that the same may also happen to others.


More Messages

Ryan Michero wrote (February 1, 2000):
[47] Well, I just listened to BWV 82 with Kuijken last night. WOW. You're right, Patrik. I no longer object to the use of the word "sublime" when discussing Marcel Ponseele. He is a player of rare musical feeling and tonal beauty.

Ehud Shiloni wrote (February 3, 2000):
[47] I agree with Ryan's enthusiasm about Ponseele's performance on Accent [with Mertens] - the best of several versions I listened to.

Peter Bright wrote (March 1, 2000):
[45] Just wondering if anyone has heard the Virgin Veritas (X2) recording of cantatas 51, 82a, 84, 199, 202, 209 by Ensemble Sonnerie with Nancy Argenta, under the direction of Monica Huggett (recorded 1993). The price is excellent for this budget edition (about 10 UK pounds for 2 discs) but does not include the texts. Does the quality of the performance stand up well against the Suzuki, Koopman, Rilling etc. efforts?

Simon Crouch wrote (March 1, 2000):
[45] I've heard BWV 82a on the radio, so I can comment on most of it! As far as BWV 82a is concerned, there's not a lot of competition (this is the version of Ich habe Genug that Bach wrote for Soprano voice) and it's sung well, but (taking nothing away from the performance). I must admit to preferring the lower voiced settings of the BWV 82 version. You get more well with Rilling [28] (and slower performances) and more subtlety with Huggett.

Ekici Armagan wrote (March 1, 2000):
[45] I have only one of the CD's (the one with BWV 82a) and it is absolutely first rate, the other one had quite good reviews too. Shame about the lack of documentation...

Peter Bright wrote (March 2, 2000):
[45] Thanks for the comments. I picked them up yesterday and must agree. They are quite wonderful performances (nicely recorded too).

Jane Newble wrote (April 24, 2000):
[46] Last week I received the CD with the wonderful Bass Matthias Goerne singing BWV 82, BWV 158 and BWV 56. I heard one track of it on the Gramophone magazine sample CD and just had to get it, and was not disappointed. "Welt, ade! Ich bin dein müde" (BWV 158) was the track featured on the Gramophone CD. The (modern) violin accompaniment is wonderful with his deep Bass voice. Although it will take a lot to beat my favourite Klaus Mertens [47], Matthias Goerne has a fantastic voice.

Here are some excerpts from the Gramophone review: "...this extraordinary fine recital of the solo Bass cantatas...." "How this wonderful musician fills all Bachians with hope! This is the sort of mature, sophisticated, assured and boundless Bach singing which one hears so rarely these days. With the beguiling and cultivated oboe playing of Albrecht Mayer, Goerne takes a refreshingly underivative view of 'Ich habe genug' (BWV 82), involved yet unobtrusively engaged. This, and the famous lullaby 'Schlummert ein', is fragrant, even and soft-spoken. Norrington's hold on the modern-instrument Salzburg Camerata Academica provides an almost ideal palette for the Lieder-inspired communicative range of Goerne. A great Bach recording" (Jonathan Freeman-Attwood)

It is on Decca 466 570-2DH (with Salzburg Bach Choir; Salzburg Camerata Academica/Sir Roger Norrington. In between the cantatas are the Sinfonias of BWV 35.

Simon Crouch wrote (April 25, 2000):
[47] I thought Jane's post was really wonderful because it illustrated for me how people's taste in vocal production differs - I listened too to the track on the Gramophone sampler and thought it was some of the worst singing that I'd ever heard! My problem? Goerne has a very fast beating vibrato - I've simply never been able to take this voice type seriously. My loss, I'm sure.


Welt, gute Nacht!

Nagamiya Tutomu wrote (August 2, 2000):
I found this phrase in three cantatas: BWV 82, BWV 159, BWV 161. And every piece is very touching, full of comfort. What do you think about these pieces? And do you know any other including this phrase?


Favourite Works

Waelse wrote (August 27, 2000)
There are so many great recordings. But I certainly wouldn't want to live without the cantata "Ich habe genug" sung by Hans Hotter [3].

Zachary Uram (SDG) wrote (August 30, 2000):
(To Waelse) I prefer recording of this with Jeffrey Thomas and Emma Kirkby. Nothing can equal it in terms of recordings of this work IMHO.

Nagamiya Tutomu wrote (August 31, 2000):
(To Zachary Uram) Regret I don't know the recording with Jeffrey Thomas and Emma Kirkby. I have one with Jeffrey Thomas and American Bach Soloists [31], and Christopher Hogwood and Emma Kirkby (but only Recitative anAria "Schlummert ein") [A-7]. Please tell me what recording you have mentioned.


Continue on Part 2

Cantata BWV 82: Details
1900-1949 | 1950-1959 | 1960-1969 | 1970-1979 | 1980-1989 | 1990-1999 | 2000-2009 | 2010-2019 | Recitative and Aria for Soprano from Anna Magdalena Notenbüchlein | Recordings of Individual Movements
Part 1 | Part 2 | Part 3 | Part 4 | Part 5 | Part 6 | Part 7 | Part 8 | BWV 508-523 Anna Magdalena Notenbüchlein - General Discussions
Text, music and performative interpretation in Bach’s cantata Ich habe genug [U. Golomb] | Sellars Staging [U. Golomb] | The Need for Bach: A discussion of his life, Jauchzet Gott in Allen Landen, BWV 51 and Ich habe genung, BWV 82 [S. Burton]

Recordings & Discussions of Cantatas: Cantatas BWV 1-50 | Cantatas BWV 51-100 | Cantatas BWV 101-150 | Cantatas BWV 151-200 | Cantatas BWV 201-224 | Cantatas BWV Anh | Order of Discussion

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Last update: ýDecember 30, 2012 ý08:09:26